In this episode of The Instant Payments Podcast, host Tal Clark, CEO of Instant Financial, sits down with Tim Gannon—co-founder of Outback Steakhouse, to explore the lessons behind building one of America’s most iconic restaurant brands. Tim shares his journey from studying art history in Florence to mastering flavor in New Orleans, inventing the Bloomin’ Onion, and scaling Outback to over 1,100 locations worldwide. Along the way, he dives into the culture and people-first leadership that fueled success, the role of innovation in pay, tipping software and technology, and his perspective on the future of earned wages, tips, and labor in the restaurant industry.

Introducing The Instant Payments Podcast 

Tal Clark: Welcome to the Instant Payments podcast. I’m your host, Tal Clark. I’m currently the CEO of Instant Financial, an earned wage access, digital tips and paycard company that modernizes payments and payroll for hourly workers and their employers. I’ve worked in the payments industry for 30 years at companies like Fiserv, a Money Network, and I’m excited you’re tuning in today.

If you like what you hear, please do us a favor and subscribe, leave a review or suggest a guest. Our journey continues today with our second episode. This podcast features payments and business leaders to discuss some of their challenges and what technologies they’ve used to improve their workplace and the lives of their workforce.

Today’s episode is a real treat. We’re joined by someone who not only helped build one of the most iconic restaurant brands in America, but also deeply understands the frontline workforce we serve. Joining us today is Tim Gannon, the co-founder of Outback Steakhouse, and more recently, Bolay Fresh Bowl Kitchen. Now retired, Tim is a true legend in the hospitality world. Beyond launching Outback, he’s helped scale numerous restaurant concepts and built a reputation for bold ideas and people first leadership. Tim also has an amazing polo career and is a polo champion. Now this conversation isn’t just about Bloomin’ onions, it’s about how great food, great culture, and great people drive performance. [00:01:00]

We’ll also talk about how he sees labor, technology, and wages evolving for the next generation of restaurant workers. Tim, welcome to the show. Where are we catching you today?

Tim Gannon: We are in Santa Barbara, California watching Polo on the ocean in 72 degree weather. I’m happy to say that probably one of the only coolest spots in America in many different ways, but it’s, it’s wonderful to be here on the ocean.

Tal Clark: Yeah. I’m with you. I think you and I both live, our permanent residence is in Florida. I’m in north Florida. You’re down in south Florida, Tampa area still, or where’s your primary residence? [00:02:00]

Tim Gannon: Yes, Wellington. It’s the. sort of polo equestrian capital of the world right outside West Palm Beach.

Tal Clark: Okay. That’s outstanding.

I was just out on the West coast as well. So I can agree with you that the weather this time of year out there is beautiful. Well look, let’s jump right in. As much as I would love to talk about polo, maybe we’ll come back to it ’cause I wanna learn more about that as well and how you got into it.

The Exploration of Flavor

But really I want to make sure we cover your amazing restaurant career. while we’re here, you’ve had a legendary career co-founding Outback and helping shape the casual dining landscape. But where did it all begin for you? Where did you, where, how did you get into the restaurant business to start with, tell me a little bit about your early life and early history.

Tim Gannon: Sure. I was a Florida State graduate and I graduated in art history, believe it or not from Florence, Italy. I know that’s a long throwaway, but, and I was searching for jobs in the art history world when I came back to the states I was enthrall enthralled with food from when I went to school in Italy and Florence, and lived a year in Paris also. [00:03:00]

And I loved the flavors and taste of all the restaurants and new experiences that I had coming out of Florida. So, that set me up for a curiosity about the restaurant business. I went to Aspen, Colorado to learn how to ski and while I was there, I met a French chef who was the director of the Aspen Institute, which was a really interesting place.

It’s a think tank for all the people from all over the world get together. The chef hired me ’cause I could speak a little French. He was new. He was from Mareille, France and he said, I’ll teach you how to cook French. You teach me English. It was good. He was 24 years old and I was 22, so we skied all day and cooked all night. [00:04:00]

It was a perfect entry into the restaurant world, where he was teaching me how to make croissants from scratch and Coq au Vin and all the beautiful French classics, all the beautiful French foods. So that gave me a sort of a foundation in a love for cooking.

So I went from there. And started interviewing. It was a very difficult time in 1973 oil embargo, no one was hiring. And Norman Brinker Steak the founder of Steak and Ale. He was hiring at Steak and Ale and I interviewed and my first job was in Washington, DC at Rockville, Maryland, and my general manager was Chris Sullivan. It’s amazing when you’re early in your career and you meet these people that you later team up with because you so admire. I so admired Chris Sullivan, what a talent he is and what a great partner he became. So anyway I, met him and then I was transferred to New Orleans and worked under George Beal. [00:05:00]

George Beal, the founder of Houston’s was the first manager of the first Steak and Ale. So, we all kind of found our roots at Steak and Ale. Then I lived in New Orleans for 10 years and New Orleans is where I cultivated a understanding of flavor. And I became to realize that you have to find, when you’re in a big industry, like the restaurant business, you have to find your niche. What are you good at? And I said, I’m gonna be good at flavor. I’m gonna be good at putting recipes together that makes sense. And I noticed that there are a lot of executives in the restaurant business that really didn’t understand Hollandaise sauce and how to make things taste great. [00:06:00]

What’s the difference between Heinz Ketchup and Hunt’s Ketchup? Hellman’s mayonnaise and Kraft mayonnaise. Why is Hellmans better? Well, it’s because they sift their oil one more time. Anyway, that, that’s where I launched into flavor and became a flavorist.

Finding Inspiration From the Flavors of New Orleans

Tal Clark: Okay. Well that’s amazing.

You hear so many stories coming out of New Orleans and you started, you learned in Aspen it sounds like and then you learned in New Orleans and plus your time in Europe. That’s a pretty amazing culinary background and very interesting. And you were in New Orleans for 10 years?

Tim Gannon: Right. I was curious one of the interesting things of New Orleans is they can take red beans and rice and make it like an a gourmet food. They really take a lot of rice and proteins and put ’em together. Shrimp etouffee, crawfish etouffee, gumbo, jambalaya. You can make a plethora of dishes with rice and water and stuff. [00:07:00]

Most of that stuff is flavor and gumbo and okra and all of that was so interesting to me how they can take ingredients like that. We call it ‘poor man’s food’ and how they can make it exotic and taste so good. That is what captivated my interest and got me involved.

And then I started working with low cost commodities like the onion, and I started adding flavor to the flour. Then I started built it into a chrysanthemum and so it was out of the New Orleans and also Japanese cookbook that showed me how to carve it an onion into a flower and we now I think sell 17, 18 million a year. We’re over a billion dollars in sales of just the onion. [00:08:00]

Tal Clark: That’s amazing. And I’m, I’m glad you told that story. So that story begins with, learning the culture in New Orleans and how to take products that are otherwise sort of unglamorous, I guess. Rice and onions and turn them into something amazing.

You didn’t mention boudin though. I think boudin is one of my favorites.

Tim Gannon: Yeah. boudin. There’s a lot of foods in New Orleans that only New Orleans people sort of encounter. The crawfish kind of stay in the muddy waters of New Orleans and they’re fabulous.

Crawfish etouffee and mud bugs and all of that stuff. It’s all good stuff. To take a little bug out of the, out of the muddy waters of Louisiana and turn it into crawfish beautiful etouffee from Commander’s Palace and all those great restaurants and how they do it, it’s magical.

Tal Clark: It really is magical. So, well you mentioned Steak and Ale that’s a brand I haven’t heard in a while and certainly one that I’ve eaten at in years before, and I’m wondering if that had much of an influence on your founding of Outback?

Europe, Florida State, then Europe, then Aspen. Time in New Orleans and learning how to work with, rice and some of the things you saw there and the flavors in New Orleans. Bridge the gap there for me to, from that to starting Outback, where did the next steps to sort of get you to the founding of Outback? [00:09:00]

The Founding of Outback Steakhouse

Tim Gannon: I did, and this is kind of a lesson to send out – is that when you run into somebody that’s very talented, like Chris Sullivan and Bob Basham and they were all Steak and Ale guys. Norman Brinker taught he took people that had a liberal arts degree, he wanted all of his managers to have college degrees, and but he took them and said, I’ll show you how to make money in this business. [00:10:00]

Steak and Ale was an amazing concept because it ran as a three man kitchen. There was one grill cook, one guy that filled up the salad bar and a dishwasher. 3 people in that kitchen. And we would do, 3 or 400 dinners a night with that little. Efficiency was Norman Brinker’s key to success was how to keep the labor low and how to stay efficient with the salad bar.

He created the salad bar. So, I met Chris Sullivan at Steak and Ale in 73. So fast forward it’s 1987. Chris stayed in touch with me. He watched everything I did in New Orleans. I worked for Al Copeland, founder of Popeye’s. He started a concept called Copeland’s Cajun Cajun food, and it was, it was great.

Black and red fish and roast Cajun duck.

Tal Clark: Yeah, I remember that

From Humble Beginnings To Going Public

Tim Gannon: andouille sausage and it was, it was a beautiful concept and all under $10, the whole menu was under $10. So Chris watched what I was doing and he came to me and he said, listen, I want you to become our partner. We are selling out of, we’re selling our Chili’s franchise back to Norman Brinker, and I want you to be our new partner. [00:11:00]

And I said, Chris, I’d be honored. I’ve always thought the world of you and I think you’re one of the greatest innovators and leaders in our industry. He ran Steak and Ale and Bennigan’s, and a lot of Chili’s and franchisees. So I moved from new Orleans to Tampa to start Outback.

I had tried a different entrepreneurial programs at the World’s Fair. Some of them didn’t work. One of them cost me about a quarter of a million dollars at 18% interest loan. And I told Chris that. He says we’ll get that fixed. So anyway, I left New Orleans, I sold a saddle for gas money to get to Tampa. [00:12:00]

I arrived in Tampa with $37. I can show you how great these partners were. Bob put me up in his house for six weeks. A lot of people, they look at guys like Outback and they, oh, they had a lot of money to start. We didn’t. We borrowed money from brothers and uncles and to find investors and, and we didn’t have a lot of money to put into the business.

So we, the economics made a lot of sense, when we opened up and they became busy and because we, our rents were low ’cause we couldn’t afford expensive locations. It all worked so nicely in the beginning. Then we went public. I didn’t even know what going public. I didn’t know what it entailed.

Tal Clark: What year was that again, Tim?

Tim Gannon: We went public, I think in 93. And rang the bell On Nasdaq to open up the floor. We transferred the New York Stock Exchange got to ring the bell again. It’s so exciting to do a road show and to be proud of bringing value to a big audience.

And from there, Outback went to 27 countries. 1100 restaurants. So it became, worldwide success. [00:13:00]

Tal Clark: That’s quite a story. And so many people think that starting businesses, that you either have a lot of money when you start, or you just jump in.

But I think what you’re talking about is the number of years you put into really learning the food space and learning from the right people and being around the right people and then willing to really jump in and, and build the right partnerships. It’s a lot of sweat equity goes into that when you start.

Right. It’s not about having all the money in the world up front?

Tim Gannon: Right. Well, I remember I think everybody will have a moment in their life where I call it the moment of truth. Where you, you’re sitting there and you’re looking at which decision, which way to go, the high road, low road. [00:14:00]

And I was there and I explained to Al Copeland, who’s a founder of Popeye’s, I said, listen I need to have an equity position in order to really find the success I truly want. And he said, well, I’ll give you something different. I’ll give you a check right here for a million dollars.

If you’ll stay with me and give up that equity idea. I was flat broke. I had a quarter of a million dollars in debt at 18%, and two little children no home rented. And here was a way to get out of debt, buy a home, and do everything. I ripped the check up. And I drove to Tampa and started Outback,

Tal Clark: Started Outback. That’s amazing. And it took a lot of guts and I admire you for that. [00:15:00]

Tim Gannon: And , I don’t know where I found the guts to do that, but you know, you look back in life and just say, that’s a moment that changed my life. And, all of a sudden launched me back into equity and partnership a part instead of working for someone, it was working with someone.

Tal Clark: That’s right.

Tim Gannon: I explained to Al, I said I don’t want to take your check and owing you the rest of my life. I don’t wanna do it that way. I wanna make money with with somebody. And that’s when Chris Sullivan said, make it with me.

Tal Clark: Well, that’s amazing. I love that story. You didn’t only change your life, you changed a lot of other lives. I can remember about 93, I was getting out of the Marine Corps at the time and took a sales job in agriculture business in Alabama, driving all over the state.

And I can remember stopping and eating Outback all the time. ’cause it was really unique at the time and what you guys were doing and the quality of the food. It was a great place to stop and get a steak if you’re on the road as a salesperson, I could tell you that for sure. [00:16:00]

Tim Gannon: Well that’s the key behind Outback. It wasn’t about us making ourselves rich. It was about how to spread the wealth. How to make other people that come to work for us, successful and wealthy also. Our manager partner program was incredible. People wrote a check for $25,000 to work at Outback and to get a proprietor program, and it was amazing somebody would write a check out of their pocket to come and work for us. They got 10% of cash flow plus a base salary of $40- $50,000, and they were making close to $200,000 running one Outback five nights a week. We had a five day work week. And it, so it was an incredible program of how to spread the wealth and share, share ownership and share success.

Tal Clark: Yeah. That’s great. And that was really my next question. You’re sort of getting in there.  So you’ve just touched on it a little bit. And you guys were known for your food at the time for sure and, and still are today. But insiders know the culture is what made it special. It’s what we hear from, from people that I know that has been around or been part of Outback previously. [00:17:00]

Can you talk about how you built that people first culture and why it mattered? I think you, you were touching on getting it started there, but how did that, what you did then sort of carry out throughout the entire employee base?

Tim Gannon: One of the interesting things we realized when we started launching Outback is we would hire people that we knew from Steak and Ale that kind of shared the similar ideals and principles that we had.

But then we ran out of those people and we said, oh my God, we’re gonna go to, North Dakota. We’re gonna go to these places in Alaska and we’re gonna go to Japan and Brazil and how do we, how do we make sure that people buy into what Outback is? And so we wrote a manuscript and it became the doctrine of who we are. [00:18:00]

It was incredible. It was like six pages. And it was about our commitment to our people, to our employees. It was about a commitment to our guests, and it was about a commitment to our investors and that all decisions had to be balanced with the three of those entities in place.

Employees deserve a fair hearing all the time. They deserve to be rewarded. And and and our guests deserve to be delighted and show hospitality to the nth degree. Like sitting at the bar, being able to eat wherever you want, sharing plates with no charge. Having, food brought to you when you’re waiting in line bringing food out to the car.

We started that, when people wanted to- go food. We brought it right to their car. That was, people were amazed. We just pull up and we bring it right to ’em. So there was a lot of things that we did that we wrote down, and that got transferred to Brazil Japan and got transferred, translated into those different languages. [00:19:00]

So it was that doctrine of our principles and beliefs we called it. Really forged success into frontiers. Like for instance, when we opened Outback, we had never even been to Australia, so, no one knew anything, we just had gone to the movie.

We liked the movie and the, the name Outback. And then we had to do some research on Outback food Australian food. And so we did that and, found out that we were really on the right target with leaning more towards New Orleans food, coconut beer, battered shrimp, and the Bloomin’ onion.

Tal Clark: Yep, I’m with you. Well, that’s that’s amazing and really explains the culture that you built around everything that you recruited. And then there’s always a large number of hourly workers in the restaurant industry as well. What worked, I mean that you gave me the basis and the culture, and I’m sure that attracted a number of workers. [00:20:00]

But what else did you do specifically to hourly workers that attracted them to the brand of Outback and made it a place where they really wanted to be?

Building A World Class Restaurant

Tim Gannon: Well, for the waiters and the servers, one of the things we did was to make sure they made good money, and we did that by what was called, I think it was unique, a three table station where one wait waiter got three tables only to work.

And he, what allowed him to do is give concentrated service, not have the stress of working a full dining room, and they made a lot of money. And, because we were busy, the guests that came in got great service because their waiter was always in their area. We had the food runner systems early on that allowed people to bring the food right to the server who wasn’t always in the kitchen. We had the timing- all of our food was timed. How you pick up the salad plate and the entree goes down. Everything was executed flawlessly and we learned a lot of that from Steak and Ale days, early days. Execution and how important hot food is. [00:21:00]

George Beal, founder of Houston’s, he taught me, he said one of the most important things that controls quality is hot food is hot, cold food is cold. And that’s by execution and delivery. So there was a lot of things we did. We gave the tools for people to execute their job and, and have all the correct tools in place – enough fryers to do the onions. [00:22:00]

That’s why people never could copy the Bloomin’ onion is because it takes so many damn fryers when you get busy to push out that many onions and normally kitchens would not add those fryers like Chili’s tried to copy us and they just didn’t have the fryer capability. I knew that and was never worried, we never had to patent the Bloomin’ onion because of the procedure.

Why? Because nobody could keep up with us.

Tal Clark: I know you had an impact on those people and probably still in the restaurant space today ’cause they followed through on that. But let’s circle back to the bloomin’ onion now.

It seems to me, based on the storyline we’ve talked to about here, you had created the Bloomin’ onion sometime before you started Outback, right?

The Founding of the Bloomin Onion

Tim Gannon: I did. I created it in New Orleans. When I was working for Al Copeland, and then when Chris said, we want you to come and do all of our food. And I had two, probably 2000 recipes that I had collected over 10 years in New Orleans. [00:23:00]

And so he said, and we’d like, and we wanna put the Bloomin’ onion, we named it the Bloomin’ onion. I said, okay. And I’ll change the version up a little bit. In the spice format a bit so that it’ll be truly an Outback creation. So, and it, they were hard. The onion was very hard to source it.

I had to find an onion that large and have it as a single heart. We were throwing out about 40% of all the onions because they didn’t meet the criteria. So then somebody, one of our managers from Texas A&M said, I’ve got a agricultural professor that comes in all the time, and I told him about our problem.

He said, he’s got a solution. And I said, all right. So I flew to Texas A&M to meet Dr. Leonard Pike, and he ran the agriculture department at Texas A&M. And I said, here’s my problem. He looked at me and he goes, here’s your solution. And he handed me a bag of seeds that, that were truly magical. [00:24:00]

These were seeds that could grow an onion to four and a half inches with a single heart all day, every day. So then I had to take those seeds and really multiply those by, thousands. Hundreds of thousands. Millions. We had to go to, I had to take those seeds and convince the onion farmers in Idaho and Oregon that I wanted them to grow this big onion for me.

And they weren’t too pleased about it because it, they produce yield how many onions per field and this curved it a bit, but I, I got to know him pretty well and I begged him to do this for me and how important it was for our success and how I’ll make onions famous one day. [00:25:00]

Tal Clark: That’s amazing. All the work that you guys put into the Bloomin’ onion and, and to even go to the farmers and make sure they’re growing it well, let’s shift gears a little bit real quick and, technology has changed a lot in the restaurant space. Everything from how we pay people to point of sale, to how you order, and how consumers pay.

What innovations have you seen that are really helping the frontline teams today? The people working in the restaurant space?

Tim Gannon: Well, the whole way people take orders now before they used to, write ’em down, put write ’em on a piece of paper and. Take ’em back into the kitchen, separate them into three different, now the computer system allows them to punch it in at the table, what they want, and it electronically goes right in the kitchen. While they’re talking to the guest, the cooks are cooking their dish and then it gets executed and sent out, without the waiter even going into the kitchen a lot of times. So the ordering system is one of the big things. [00:26:00]

The reservation systems of taking a reservation and then letting people know, Hey, your reservation is coming up, or you’re on your way, whatever. That whole system has changed the accuracy of, of how tables are turned and how all that’s done. So that’s been an incredible improvement. So people know, even today when, we were in Europe and everybody’s using electronic reservations for tables, and you don’t go anywhere without, really, it’s gotten so sophisticated that you don’t go into a restaurant anymore without a reservation in Europe. Cause they fill up on reservations, they book it, and it’s so well organized for everybody so that those systems work well. [00:27:00]

And then watching what Instant has done. About how to pay people. That that’s an incredible innovation. That was when I look at things and a lot of the ideas that you have are right at your, at your fingertips. Great ideas are right there. And Dave came up with the one about how to pay employees and how they can get access to their money. Now that’s an, an incredible innovation, that is smart and makes the employees, putting employees first.

How Faster Pay Leads to Better Service

Tal Clark: Yeah, absolutely. That’s great. And I, and I think that’s the word we want to continue to get out about technology in general, but certainly, our focus on making sure that they have access. Right. Access every day. And I’m glad you’ve recognized that and we’re doing it for wages and for tips.

What advice would you give restaurant leadership, in regards to taking care of employees and wages and tips and earned wage access and all those things. [00:28:00]

Tim Gannon: Well, I think you can look at some restaurant leaders that really do things so uniquely, and I want to point out one company that I’ve gotten to know. And that’s Chick-fil-A.  If you go through a Chick-fil-A, and we, my son and I went through one this morning. And there’s a guy there, one of the employees, he knows our order. He remembers it. Hey Tim, same regular thing? Yep. Pushes a button.

All we do is give them the credit card and away we go through. It’s so fast and efficient and, and so you’re going, how do they get employees to be that kind, that nice, that respectful and always with a smile. And, and how do, how does that happen?  So, it’s the founders, of, Chick-fil-A. [00:29:00]

Have they found a way to how to recruit people based on if they like to go get a choir at a church and they put a whole choir against this. We wanna hire the whole choir. The reason they do that is that, that group is already a team.  Norman Brinker hired fraternity brothers and sorority people and college kids. That’s what Norman brought to the table. And college graduates for their GMs. So everybody recruits in a different way. But Chick-fil-A and the packages and scholarships and programs that Chick-fil-A does for its employees is incredible.

I really got to know one of the founders of Chick-fil-A and have so much respect for how they treat their employees and how respectful they are of their team leaders. And they’ve taken it to the notch of the hourly employee where and you see there are average unit volumes- $6, $7, $8 million at Chick-fil-A for fast food. And there’s a lot of, they’ll be next to a McDonald’s doing $2 million. So the enormous success they have found by how they treat their employees. [00:30:00]

But it’s how they treat their employees and how the employees treat the guests that you love going to Chick-fil-A. It’s a great experience. And the same with my son Chris at Bolay. When you come into a Bolay and how you’re treated and, and how you’re welcomed, and how they explain how nutritious the food is for you and all the selections there.

Culture Drives Success

Tal Clark: Yeah, I think that’s great. During this conversation so far, you’ve hit on a few things that are really key. One is, you talked about the culture document that you guys put together, the things that are gonna be important to Outback. You’ve talked about you’ve talked about making sure employees are treated well and the results that can have on your business, with the things that we do, whether it’s wages and tip access, just making sure they have that access. And then talking about how that goes into the culture of Chick-fil-A and all the things they do to make sure their employees are rewarded, then it shows in the business as well. So I really appreciate that knowledge and I think this will be very valuable to someone else listening. You mentioned Bolay real quick, and I’d love to talk to Chris at some point. We may have to get him on here as well and talk to him in the coming weeks. [00:31:00]

I stopped at a Bolay in Pembrook Pines, I believe it was. Probably a couple of months ago. It was the first one. I live in Pensacola. We don’t have one up here. We’d love to get one up here at some point. And I was looking at a good, fresh place to eat, with, with just good food ingredients.

I try to eat healthy when I can, and I found Bolay just by looking for that. Talk a little bit about what was the desire be behind launching the concept and what are your growth plans? [00:32:00]

Tim Gannon: Well, Bolay was brought to me by my son. Really the idea was he wanted to go into the business of fast casual, with a lower investment level than a big casual dining restaurant.

And, I thought that was a good idea so I got in and helped him. We designed the food together. We brought in one of the chefs from New Orleans, another chef from Aspen, Colorado. And we designed some great flavors and interesting foods and so it was to present food to people at a low price, nutritious food, that was delicious.

And the people, a lot of people that are athletes- polo players and jumpers and equestrian people, they love Bolay. They can go in there and eat a big full meal and get right on their horse. They don’t have that I gotta go take a nap feeking.[00:33:00]

Tal Clark: Yeah. I know that I gotta go take a nap feeling for sure.

Launching A Fast Food Chain

Tim Gannon: So to keep the price points low, I think it’s $10 or $11 for about a one pound meal that a lot of people can make it into two meals, they take it home and they can make two meals out of it. So Bolay is a fun atmosphere to work in.

Chris has about 22 of them now in South Florida, and he’s gone through tough times, with COVID. COVID hit South Florida pretty hard. Chris, as the CEO has been really challenged and he’s come through it very nicely.

I’m very proud of him- how he’s come through some difficult times and learned how to build the departments of, real estate. The difference between what Chris is doing with Bolay and what I did with Outback, I only had to focus on food. I had two partners that that focused on real estate, financing, construction, marketing. [00:34:00]

There are a lot of different elements in the restaurant business to be successful. It’s not just about food. Food’s a big component, but you have to have a marketing message, and you have to have a brand, and you have to know how to build a brand, and then you have to know how to run a construction department. And how to purchase in your purchasing department. There’s so many different departments within the restaurant business that they’re all critical. When it comes to how you treat your employees, your HR department, all of these things are so, so important and it’s hard. So Chris unfortunately didn’t really have the team and he’s building it now.

He’s building his team now but he kind of stumbled a bit. Because, and that’d be an interesting conversation to have with him, is what did he learn from the stumble? And how do you do that? Because everybody who starts a business if you’ve never been a CEO you’re gonna stumble and it’s there, there’s no doubt about that. [00:35:00]

So when you stumble, what happens. And how do you, how do you come through that? How do you stumble and pick yourself back up. That’s the critical thing. I think that’s the thing that makes a true leader is not a guy that just gets up and starts running and has pure success. And Outback, same story. I did a, a podcast with them to all their employees and Outback is really trying to grab its roots again and, and, and reformat itself.

And, and I’m proud. I’m proud of them for searching back and the principles and beliefs that make sense?

Tal Clark: Yep. It’s a great group over there and we really wanna be a part of helping with that as well. And have enjoyed our time and, and look forward to a long relationship. Tim, we’ve covered a lot of ground and I don’t wanna take up too much of your time.

It’s been great to meet you. Anything you’re working on or want to share with the audience that we haven’t talked about? [00:36:00]

Tim Gannon: I’m just out looking at opportunities now. Helping my son a little bit at Bolay- keep that going strong. It’s a really interesting time and I think we’re finding out how important service is and how important employees are and team members are to providing a great experience and why people go back to restaurants.

It’s not just about the food. It’s not just about the price.

Tal Clark: Yeah. Well those are great. Those are great words and we really are aligned with you on those things that you mentioned.

And wanted to stay in touch and I look forward to hopefully talking to Chris. We’ll follow up and maybe see if you can put us in contact with Chris. I’d love to meet him and, and ask him to join us as well. We’ll wrap up with just thank you so much for joining us. Your impact on the restaurant industry and the lives of the people who work in it cannot be overstated.

It’s been an honor to have you on. To our listeners, you can follow along with the new episodes at instant.co/podcast and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, share the episode, leave a review, and suggest a future guests.

Thanks for tuning in to the Instant Payments podcast. [00:37:00]