Advancing Women Leaders and Balancing Purpose and Profit in Restaurants

Tal Clark: Welcome back to the Instant Payments podcast. I’m your host, Tal Clark, CEO of Instant Financial, and we’re back for part two of our conversation with Melissa Doolin-Koehne, the founder of Elevate Four and a leading voice in restaurant leadership. Melissa, let’s jump right back in. we were talking a little bit earlier about the Texas Restaurant Foundation and some of the things you were doing.

But I, I know that you’re also very passionate about advocating for women in the restaurant industry. Can you tell us about some of the work you’re doing along those lines and why this is so important for everyone?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Yes, absolutely. Thanks for asking. The women in our industry, when you think about the diversity of our industry, we are the most diverse industry that is out there. And, it’s wonderful from a perspective of learning and growing. And my years and decades of being here, I’ve [00:01:00] seen so much change for women.

The days of hearing my mother as a general manager and hearing her stories that are sometimes a little cringe-worthy, and how far we’ve come along. But it makes me proud to be in this industry because of the opportunity that exists for everyone. But the reality is, is as you move up, the less and less women are at the top.

And so, I was just at the Women’s Foodservice Forum Conference, as well as the Women in Restaurant Leadership Conference, and the statistics are interesting. Executive suites are made up of about 33% women, so one in three executives in our industry are women. When you get to the top, which is the CEO level, only 10% are represented by women.

And so we have to kind of look at ourselves as an industry and say, “Okay, why is that?” And there’s a [00:02:00] lot of factors that, that play into that. But one of the things that I’ve noticed in our industry is that we have incredible leadership that women represent in so many different brands. And so I created an Executive Women’s Leadership Retreat this last year. I’m hosting two of them this year, that brings together executive level women that need some time and space to talk about not only their leadership journey, but learning from others.

Because I believe if we give space and time for these women to come together and really talk about their unique perspective, but also give them opportunities to learn from each other and then build alliances. We’re all better together when we start to work together and build a community that supports the growth of other women in this industry.

And so it’s been, an incredible [00:03:00] journey seeing how this retreat has really changed people’s perspectives, and been able to give them a support, that they’ve never had before. And a lot of these women, you start to see big changes. They’re starting to join boards because everyone’s advocating for each other.

We all are better together with our strengths. Board members, getting promotions, changing jobs, I mean, the list goes on and on. But this group of women really look out for each other and support each other, but we also want to learn and grow, so when the opportunity arises for us to be in those roles, we are very ready and have a support system to, to be able to do it.

Tal Clark: Well, that’s great, and it’s great to see momentum there. I know the CEO of Cracker Barrel is a lady, which is commendable for sure. Talk about a few others that [00:04:00] you know and recognize.

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Yes. So we have a CEO of Whataburger, the new CEO of Culver’s is doing it. We have a CEO at Habit Burger that’s a woman. I wish that I had a much larger list. I mean, I can list off plenty of men CEOs. Heather Neary from Taco John’s is an incredible leader. So there are some incredible women doing great, great work, but we’ve actually been on the decline.

We’re making progress in a lot of ways, but we’ve actually declined in the amount of women that are at the top. And sometimes, we get the reputation that women come in and save brands that need saving. We might not get the best opportunities, but, I gotta believe that this is going to change and we’re going to see it get better.

But we have to collectively be smart about this and be aware that these numbers exist. Because it’s [00:05:00] not about making sure there’s more women at the top for the sake of women at the top. It’s really around leadership and giving people opportunities when they deserve it.

Tal Clark: Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense, and I know that’s just one area where you have been an advocate and been involved in leadership. And, one of the things that you do as well is talk a lot about balancing purpose and profit, and I think women in leadership can be one of those purposes.

But, 

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Mm-hmm. 

Tal Clark: For restaurant operators, what else is out there when you talk about purpose and profit? What does that actually look like in practice for you?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Hmm. That’s a great question. So, I go back to the way that we built Black Box Intelligence was really, really intentional on people and profits. And the work that we were doing was really talking about best practices in that. When you, we believed that when you were investing in your [00:06:00] people, you were more profitable, and we had the data and and intelligence to see that, right?

A lot of times the first thing that’s cut out of a budget is a training budget or let’s cut wages. Let’s look at that. And I will tell you that that’s an easy way short term to save money, but long term it erodes your brand. And you can see that time and time again. There’s so many great examples of companies that lean in heavily to the employee experience.

And purpose and profits mean, the building purpose and profits is not through just the employee experience. It’s really around what does your company stand for? does your leadership, model have a servant leadership model? Is it, how do we not only take care of ourselves, but all of our stakeholders, including our customers, our clients, and our vendors?

A lot of times we forget about our vendors and, and how we treat [00:07:00] them. So I highly recommend reading the book Unconscious Capitalism, if you have not. There’s great webinar series around it. And the book in itself, I think you, you would enjoy. John Mackey, the founder of Whole Foods, wrote this book several years ago, but I think a lot of what comes from that book is something that, I know I really advise and take into all the work that I do, with the companies that I work with and that I look for, quite frankly, now that I’m on the side where I’m a consultant.

I look for brands that really hold the purpose piece of it because to me, we can all be incredibly profitable, but to be able to improve the wellbeing of all included, that’s where the magic happens. And I mean, quite frankly, I think you and I have had those conversations and about what [00:08:00] Instant does and plays a role in that piece, which is, you have probably a ton of stories of how you can impact change, in organizations and give people peace of mind, from a financial wellness perspective, which is, so important.

Tal Clark: Yeah, absolutely. And, when you talk about purpose-driven, I think we all can, we probably all think of a few restaurant brands that we associate with that, that are strong and successful brands. And it, it always starts with employees. You always hear that, and I think it’s much easier to say sometimes, but maybe not always put into practice.

There’s always competing priorities for leadership, right? And what choices they make today, and we see that in what we do, right? Choices between hardware or choices between some of the things that we do, and timing of those things. We think that every employee should have access every day, and you really, you could get me off on a tangent here [00:09:00] because, one of the things that we know is employees want access, right?

They need access, even more importantly, and if they don’t have that access, they’re doing some things that the alternatives are not good. They’re borrowing from family. They’re working hours that they don’t need to work because they’re sick. They’re selling things on eBay that they otherwise would need.

Working extra shifts. All those things that are not ideal, when we can solve a lot of that just by making their wages available to them and used to wages were available to you every day, and then it was stretched to weekly, and then it was stretched to bi-weekly.

Outside of the restaurant industry, it’s even monthly, which is kinda crazy, right? So,

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: That is crazy.

Tal Clark: Yeah. So what else do you see that employees, from an employee financial wellness perspective, what are some things that come to mind with you when you have an opportunity to visit with [00:10:00] employees or visit with managers that are there day to day with employees in a restaurant location, what are you hearing that, that needs to be addressed?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I think, this never is said enough, because it’s always true. I mean, culture starts at the top, right? And building a culture where people wanna go to work is so key. I think investing in that manager role and making sure you have the right managers is so important, and management leadership, right?

They are managing incredibly complex systems. Not only are they, have the most diverse workforce, but then they have the diversity of systems and, the challenges that we have in sales and traffic. And so I always say pour into that general manager as much as you can, and it’ll flow through to the [00:11:00] employee experience.

I think what I’m hearing a lot in our industry is that we are so hyper-focused on the customer experience, which I understand why, but I would challenge brands to inverse their thought on that and say, “Start with the employee experience.” What is going on in that employee experience? Because if you get that right, it really starts to build around that guest experience.

And so I really believe that best-in-class employees need to focus on how do they create an employee experience that makes them come to work, and it can be as simple as pay, right? one of the things that we’re working on at the Texas Restaurant Association that has really been top of mind and, and troublesome for a lot of our restaurateurs, and their employees is daycare and childcare.

And [00:12:00] the cost of childcare has gone up significantly, and so I think this is another area where I would challenge you to get involved in your state association, because there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, not only here in Texas, but across the country when we are trying to find employees.

By the way, trying to find employees is not gonna get any easier. I know we’re in a level right now where turnover is a little bit lower. We’re feeling a little bit more comfortable, but look at the population growth and look at, where we are heading as a nation. I’m telling you right now, it’s gonna get harder.

I hate to bring up, like, one of those, subjects that is a little bit of a spitfire, but immigration is something that could, it potentially really impact our industry. We rely heavily on immigrants, and so I just challenge employees to start to think about that employee [00:13:00] experience if you have immigrants working in your restaurants and where their head space is right now.

You have single working moms or parents, trying to, get to work, and what happens when there’s a sick day, and how do you treat those employees that are going through that? It goes back to you think about, a lot of people that are listening to this will probably be on the executive level, but put yourself in a GM’s shoes, every day where they have line cooks that are worried about being deported and their best server calls out because their daughter’s sick with, COVID or the flu.

What do you do?

Tal Clark: Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Those are the realities.

Tal Clark: Yeah, those are realities and they’re tough to deal with, and I’m not sure there’s not readily available solutions, but I think it does go back to, you said start with your employees and the [00:14:00] content employees who have– you’ve met their needs essentially, and they enjoy their work, they enjoy their management environment, their manager environment, then they’re more likely to provide the service you want for your guest.

It makes all the sense in the world to me, for sure, and it is a tough environment. So, what are you hearing in regards to hiring? You touched on it a little bit, but, it’s competitive, I’m sure. So I guess let’s first maybe just talk about the quick service restaurant space, because I think there is a difference between quick service restaurant and the table service restaurant space.

We’re heavily involved in both. In the quick service restaurant space, we make sure that 100% of those employees can get paid. Regardless of their background, if they’re working at that employer, they can have access to their pay and their wages, which is unique and instant. But what does it look like if someone’s deciding on going to work at one QSR restaurant versus another, we [00:15:00] think earned wage access is a separator there. What are some other items that might come up in that hiring process that, that are important to those individuals? You mentioned daycare. Is anybody in the quick service restaurant space doing something to make sure that’s, they’re helping with daycare type expenses?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Yeah. I’ve heard, some of those things that are happening. I believe the tough part in our industry is that is not an area where we have a lot of control because it relies on government to really come in and help, right? But that’s where we partner with our associations to figure that out.

I will say this, I think we’re seeing, some innovation around flexibility and schedule. When I was at Black Box, the information is still shared with me. Flexibility and schedule is so important, especially for this next generation and coming [00:16:00] up. You wanna attract a great, great, talent, but they wanna have flexibility in when they work and how they work.

And so I think brands that are getting creative in that way. I just had a conversation with some recruiters at Raising Cane’s and bringing up brand up again, but, they tend to overstaff with really great high school students that recruit from each other, and they know that those kids are busy.

Chick-fil-A does the same thing. They want the best of the best high school students, ’cause frankly, QSR is full of high school students and college students, right? They want the best of the best, so they work within their schedule, knowing that they’re probably in band or volleyball or whatever it is, right?

They’re very active students, so they kind of overstaff to be able to provide some flexibility for those jobs. And I think that’s really important. I think [00:17:00] wages are always important. While that is kind of a topic that I think we’ve gotten a little bit of relief from, it’s still the reality is a lot of our employees live paycheck to paycheck.

The student debt, the credit card debt is a reality for us. And so I think we’ll always have to challenge ourselves on how do we become a good partner, and help with that. There’s a organization out of the UK that I’ve been talking to, recently, and I think there’s probably more out there, but they’re called FinFit.

They’re talking about, the education of taking these hourly employees and being able to give them education around financial wellness. Because sometimes they don’t get that at home or school, and they don’t know what it means to save for a 401K. They don’t know what it means to… what’s the difference between a HSA [00:18:00] and a full insurance.

Like, I think we do have a lot of financial wellness opportunities to educate since we are a lot of times that first employee.

Tal Clark: Yeah. Well, that’s great. And financial wellness is critical and we’ve built that into our program as well, right? They can get a financial education package that we provide in partnership with Visa, as an example, and they can get, they can get credit builder.

Everybody needs credit, and sometimes that’s tough to build. And we help them do that, along with some actual wellness, some health and wellness benefits that are within that. So, we certainly are trying to do our part and just wanna make sure that we can touch as many as possible out there.

So, Melissa, we could talk for a while, but, let’s end with a round of rapid-fire questions. In a few sentences, tell me what you think about the following topics. What is one leadership principle you live by?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Build cultures and teams with intention, I [00:19:00] think. And, I always go with a advice that my mom gave me when I graduated from high school, and it’s, treated me very, very well, and I tell my own kids. Surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. Don’t let ego get in the way. When you surround yourself with people that are smarter than you, you will always go further.

Tal Clark: 100%. That’s great advice. Is there a habit or routine that you follow every day?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: So, I will tell you that one of the things that matters to me is family time. And so as active as our family is, we really try to be intentional every night to have dinner at the table together. And it is usually my favorite part of the day is to hear about how everybody’s day was and to be able to connect that way.

I feel like that grounds all of us, as a family unit. Believe it or not, I feel like that’s like a rare [00:20:00] thing, now where I’ve always kinda grown up that way, but that is something that I’m really intentional on.

Tal Clark: I think that’s great. And, I, I think I’ve actually seen data recently that how that’s changed in American life. 10, 15, 20 years ago, it was every day you were at the table with your family for dinner. Now it seems very much less frequent, and in some families maybe not at all, right? But I think that’s great doing that, and I think it is, I think it goes to health and wellness itself, honestly.

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: Yes. Well, I gotta tell you this week, one of our getting around the table was actually going to McDonald’s with my eight-year-old because they had their K-pop Demon Hunter new Happy Meal that popped up. And my, my daughter has been waiting for that. And, we sat in a McDonald’s for an hour. I haven’t been to a McDonald’s and sitting inside a McDonald’s for forever, but I’ll tell you, that is a memory that she’ll keep forever.

I love when [00:21:00] restaurants provide that opportunity.

Tal Clark: Absolutely. I think that’s great. I, I think it’s more important that you do it than where you do it, for sure. So that’s cool. One piece of advice for someone just starting their career in hospitality?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: I would say stay open to opportunities. Don’t, follow… Don’t get a job for the brand, get a job with the leader. Whoever your first boss is matters more than what brand it is.

Tal Clark: Okay, outstanding. And what professionally speaking are you most excited about for 2026?

Melissa Doolin-Koehne: I’m excited about the shift that’s happening in our industry, and I, I think we’re becoming, less reactive in operations and more intentional. And I believe that’s through a people-first leadership model supported by smarter tools that make it easier to be that way. So I think the real momentum is happening around [00:22:00] empowering your frontline teams, building stronger cultures, making better decisions with better data.

It feels like we’re entering a new chapter, and I’m excited about being in the middle of it all and helping shape it. I think we’re getting there. I’m excited for the future.

Tal Clark: That’s, that’s outstanding. Melissa, this has been great. Thank you so much for joining us today. I look forward to talking to you more in the future and certainly working with you as we go forward. Your leadership in the industry is making a difference in terms of both purpose and profits for the state of Texas and beyond.

For our audience, you can find Melissa on LinkedIn. We’ll link to her page and the Texas Restaurant Association in the show notes. You can follow along with the new episodes at instant.co/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Please share the episode and leave a review. Thanks for tuning in to season two of the Instant Payments Podcast.